Trying to set up maps on old Garmin without success.

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Didado
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Re: Trying to set up maps on old Garmin without success.

Post by Didado » Wed May 30, 2018 5:28 pm

Schussboelie wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 7:22 am
Didado wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 6:03 am
Schussboelie wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 12:14 pm

This is NOT true, as my video shows.
If you say so. You'll find out sooner or later that it may seem to work but doesn't.
Have YOU actually tried this? In the field (and not at your desk in GPS simulation mode)? Because I have, on more than one occasion...
Yes, it ruined part of my month long vacation in the Pyrenees two years ago where I had all these Wikilocs offroad tracks which I had the Zumo turn into Trips which in Zumo terms is the same as Routes. It doesn't follow the tracks where there are no roads on the map and calculates a route via roads. (not recalculate).

I was convinced like you that nav devices can do routing when there are no roads but once you understand how nav devices route it will click why it can not work.

Somewhere on the Adventure Rider forum in the Zumo 590 thread there's an ultra frustrated rant by me (2016) why the !@$@$@ Zumo 590 can't do what I thought and you think it can do. All the guys said was routing doesn't work that way. Just follow the visible track.

It is so simple. Forget off the road trails. If I give you track which I rode on a mountainbike riding over bicycle paths only. Those paths are on the map but there are no roads legal to motor vehicles will the Zumo or the TomTom or the Tripy make a route over that track? No way.

Whatever profile you choose on the Zumo is motor vehicle based, no matter if it is curvy, shortest or fastest and it will calculate a route via roads legal to motor vehicles. The Zumo does have an offroad profile which is a straight line from waypoint to waypoint. Great for desert crossings.

You confuse the visibility of the track in combination with routing which gives you a meaningless ETA as the reason it works. Just load a track on your Zumo which has some serious not on the map trails. Let's say 50,34 km. Then tell the Zumo to turn the Track into a Trip which is the same as a Zumo Route. You will be presented by a map that shows a route following the track exactly with a length of 50,34 km. It must work?

Then press the button GO. The Garmin starts calculating a Route ( NO not recalculate because you have that turned off haven't you!) based on whatever profile you have but no matter what ... Wauw, suddenly the route is 56,78 km?

It is not my intention at all to be right about this. I've said over and over I want to be wrong... I just would like to debunk the perception that nav devices can do routing based on tracks that follow trails that are not on the map. It seems so many TET riders are wasting all this time like I did getting this to work when it can't.

Instead of getting into a verbal fight about this I could come over to Belgium and we go ride together and see if we can solve this problem of perception. I'd love to go ride with you.

That would be the TET spirit way of solving this :-)
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Schussboelie
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Re: Trying to set up maps on old Garmin without success.

Post by Schussboelie » Thu May 31, 2018 11:56 am

I came back to this topic to tell you the infamous Mr. GPS confirmed my claim in a non-related topic on another forum but I like your final conclusion much better! :D
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Didado
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Re: Trying to set up maps on old Garmin without success.

Post by Didado » Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:24 am

Schussboelie wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 11:56 am
I came back to this topic to tell you the infamous Mr. GPS confirmed my claim in a non-related topic on another forum but I like your final conclusion much better! :D
Well then we have to see if we can't come up with some dates where I come to Belgium to ride a bit of TET :-)

Since I have Mr GPS in very high regard I would love to read that post on the other forum. After all, If I'm wrong I will have to bring the 100 euro's with me to Belgium :-)
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Didado
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Re: Trying to set up maps on old Garmin without success.

Post by Didado » Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:12 pm

I made another video to show what happens when you convert an offroad track to trip from start to finish. This time I went for a spin in my car to make filming a bit easier and to show what happens. Where the track actually goes offroad via the fields, the Zumo calculates a trip via roads.
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Schussboelie
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Re: Trying to set up maps on old Garmin without success.

Post by Schussboelie » Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:41 pm

Didado wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:24 am
Well then we have to see if we can't come up with some dates where I come to Belgium to ride a bit of TET :-)
That in any case!
We might also be on TET NL somewhere halfway August!
Didado wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:24 am
Since I have Mr GPS in very high regard I would love to read that post on the other forum.
Here you go: Mr. GPS talking about directions in a route converted from a track.
It's in Dutch but I'm sure you'll understand. ;)
Didado wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:24 am
After all, If I'm wrong I will have to bring the 100 euro's with me to Belgium :-)
I'll settle for a beer or two.
Didado wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:12 pm
I made another video to show what happens when you convert an offroad track to trip from start to finish. This time I went for a spin in my car to make filming a bit easier and to show what happens. Where the track actually goes offroad via the fields, the Zumo calculates a trip via roads.
:D Well I watched you video and you made a mistake as far as I can tell.
At 3'56" in the video you chose to navigate to the end of the Trip (=the converted track) while you were not on the route yet.
In that case you should have chosen to navigate to the start first.
The safest way is to go the start first, before even loading the converted track but it should even work fine this way, just choose Start and not Finish when not already on the track.

It would be great if you could take some of that € 100 to fill up your gastank and try again. :lol
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Didado
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Re: Trying to set up maps on old Garmin without success.

Post by Didado » Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:44 pm

Schussboelie wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:41 pm
Didado wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:24 am
Well then we have to see if we can't come up with some dates where I come to Belgium to ride a bit of TET :-)
That in any case!
We might also be on TET NL somewhere halfway August!
Didado wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:24 am
Since I have Mr GPS in very high regard I would love to read that post on the other forum.
Here you go: Mr. GPS talking about directions in a route converted from a track.
It's in Dutch but I'm sure you'll understand. ;)
Didado wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:24 am
After all, If I'm wrong I will have to bring the 100 euro's with me to Belgium :-)
I'll settle for a beer or two.
Didado wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:12 pm
I made another video to show what happens when you convert an offroad track to trip from start to finish. This time I went for a spin in my car to make filming a bit easier and to show what happens. Where the track actually goes offroad via the fields, the Zumo calculates a trip via roads.
:D Well I watched you video and you made a mistake as far as I can tell.
At 3'56" in the video you chose to navigate to the end of the Trip (=the converted track) while you were not on the route yet.
In that case you should have chosen to navigate to the start first.
The safest way is to go the start first, before even loading the converted track but it should even work fine this way, just choose Start and not Finish when not already on the track.

It would be great if you could take some of that € 100 to fill up your gastank and try again. :lol
Let us see if we can meet up then in august!

Anyway,

I will fill up and substract 4,567 euro's from the price money and try again :-) I will choose to go to the start of the converted track as you suggest :-)

However, this was not my only experiment :-) I did a bunch of tracks around Amsterdam and like I said earlier Spain two years ago...

Sometimes it seems to work but most often not.

Even if you are on the route, you get the question if you next destination should be the Start or End. I tried that also and it makes no difference. It is not a recalculation of the route. That is turned off just like MrGps suggests.

Like you suggest I should try again, I would also like you to try again. Draw a 3 or 4 kilometer track in a straight line through forests, meadows etc and then try again with video :-)
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Didado
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Re: Trying to set up maps on old Garmin without success.

Post by Didado » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:37 pm

The saga continues and some beer needs to flow to bring this issue to a conclusion. :teasing-neener:

One thing is for sure, the prize money is becoming less because I took you up on the challenge to spend some of it on gas and make another video without the 'mistake' where I chose to navigate to the End instead of the Start of the 'Track converted to Trip' before I was actually on the track.

You had me doubt myself which is good. I like learning. So I spent another few hours testing your suggestion and beyond.

Now I don't doubt myself anymore but doubt the entire Track converted to Trip feature of the Garmin Zumo again. It is doing exactly that which drove me bonkers in Spain. Sometimes it seems to work but most of the time it doesn't seem to work. :lol

I believe the reason it worked for you is that the off the grid trails are short sections. When I test short tracks locally in Amsterdam with an offroad section of perhaps a couple of hundred meters I do get the 'go offroad' instructions. When they are longer sections all goes weird. :old

But hey, maybe I overlooked something again so I'm still hoping I'm mistaken and I can use the Track to Trip to my advantage but I very much doubt it. Curious to hear what you think of this video.

By the way, you can modify an XML file on the Zumo to 'widen' the appearance of track lines.
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Re: Trying to set up maps on old Garmin without success.

Post by MattB » Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:11 am

Ok, so just to be clear.... (as mud);

I have a Zumo 500. I can load the Swedeish TET gpx files onto it in bite size chunks that I have saved as tracks in Baescamp?

Then I can Import these onto my map when using my Garmin. HOWEVER, I have to just view it as a preview and follow it best I can on my bike? If I choose to press GO and use it as a route, my Garmin will recalculate when I go off road?

So in short, I cannot use the GPX files of the TET to actually navigate the TET using my Garmin Zumo 500. Rather instead I have to follow a line that it overlays and if I go worng, zoom out to find the line and work my way back?

Is that what you guys are saying?

Many thanks.
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Didado
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Re: Trying to set up maps on old Garmin without success.

Post by Didado » Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:20 am

Yes, that's what I'm saying. Import the tracks, go to the app tracks and make the tracks visible on the map and just follow the track on the map. It really is no big deal. Rally riders look at the roadbook all the time at high speed. You get used to it very quickly.

However, in that same app you can also say Make trip from Track. If you do that and you go to the app Trip Planner and Choose that Trip and say Go you will get routing instructions via voice.

However, this will work properly as long as the track is following roads on your digital map. In other words for 200 km it may give you great instructions and then suddenly it may tell you to go right where the TET goes left into the woods following a trail that is not on the map. In other words you can not rely on the routing.

If you want to see what sort of happens on your zumo, just import the Swedish track into basecamp. Choose an activity profile (motorcycling, offroad, dirtbiking, ATV etc). Then right click on the track and chose Create Route from Track. You will see that the Route will follow the track where it can, but in many places the route is different from the track. Zoom in on those area and what you see is that Route only follows roads on the map while the track may go where there are no roads. (this is not exactly what happens on your Zumo but it is the easiest illustration what may happen)

If you do this in Basecamp it becomes much clearer.
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